For years growing up, I worked as a waitress at my dad’s small café.

Every single day, a local doctor came in and, every single day, he complained about the food and service. The soup was lukewarm. The bread wasn’t warm enough. This glass has a scratch. He had money, infinite lunch options and seemed to hate everything about the place — why did he keep coming back?

Sara Libby on NewsFast-forward a decade and there’s a new finicky doctor in my professional life — only this one’s a telecom engineer who seems to disdain every story published, every sentence crafted and every hire made — and loves to tell us so.

He’s Jim Jones, someone who, depending on your take, is either Voice of San Diego’s most prolific commenter or its most tireless troll.

Last week, for example, Jones submitted 36 comments (including seven that were denied). They range from baiting:

Believe me, if I did have kids of school age, I would have them in private schools or move somewhere where teachers cared about kids more than money. And the only people sacrificing here are the taxpayers footing the bill for your still overly generous compensation.

to downright poetic:

No, I’m an antisocial Darwinist, a terrible guitarist, who worships Stevie Nicks from afarist, who eats if he is starvingist, who isn’t the charmingest, or resembles a movie star I profess, unless it’s Mr Ed in face, but thinks when the kids all take a test it should tell us our schools are the best, but that’s just a foolish dream I guess

Jones has certainly been up front about his opinion of me. Here are some gems:

Libby often selects and even alters the facts when she reports to fit the narrative of her bias. She is sort of a Rush Limbaugh of the feminist persuasion.

Heck, after reading Libby’s body of work it’s clear she was hired because of her lifestyle and personal leftist feminist viewpoint rather than any skill as a journalist

Ah yes Greg, it’s our stupidity at work here, not Libby’s bias against men.

My reaction:

But I’m far from the only staffer or reader Jones has provoked. Just look at the intrigue he’s managed to cultivate:

Some want to see far less of Jones on the site: One user actually built a program to replace Jones’ comments with pictures of his own dog. Another was a big VOSD cheerleader until we refused to ban Jones from the site.

Comments like this one, for example, don’t take much imagination to get at the target:

It is due to the poor quality of some comments, and VoSD having abdicated control of the section to its readers; and one reader in particular, who floods the space with aggressively rude and ridiculous remarks, refuses to respectfully and reasonably engage when questioned and challenged, and continually paints a deeply disturbing picture of our society by projecting his inner most fears and fantasies on everyone who crosses his path.

I couldn’t take the mystery any longer, so I reached out to Jones. And, to my surprise, he responded promptly and was willing to answer anything.

And, as if anticipating that the photo he has used as an avatar on our site — a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag that has become an icon of the tea party right — left something to be desired, he sent along some photos too.

Photo courtesy of Jim Jones
Photo courtesy of Jim Jones
Jim Jones

Here’s the bulk of our email conversation.

How much time do you think you spend on VOSD every day?

Perhaps an hour total, in little chunks. I work in front of a computer, and often have minutes of downtime as processes run or I am waiting on something so I have several sites open all the time and check them when I get a break, it helps keep my mind active and feeds my news junkie.

You often voice strong negative opinions on stories and the way they’re covered — what keeps you coming back every day?

What fun would it be to reply “I agree with Sara Libby” every day? I find the more liberal sites like OB Rag (and even SD Reader) painful to read at times, and the average UT comments section is way to [sic] busy and has a serious Least Common Denominator problem (although plenty of the VOSD posters are there as well, usually bashing Manchester just like they do on VOSD).

If I had time to post long, reasoned replies I would post to more conservative blogs with a wider scope and in a more serious manner, but usually my posts are very quickly done in a few seconds time.

What do you think VOSD does best? And worst?

I appreciate that VOSD covers more depth on local politics than I have time to follow on my own. It still leaves something to be desired on depth at times, but it is the best game in town, although UT does a decent job as well I give the edge to you guys.

I think the most difficult task of running any organization is retaining good people, especially on a journalists pay, and I think VOSD has an issue in that department. I wasn’t a big fan of Emily (Alpert), but when school issues were at the forefront of local politics she went away, and the depth of school coverage decreased.

I also think there is an overall bias to the left on VOSD (big surprise there :)).

I have serious concerns with Will (Carless) leaving, he is the most centrist of your group, and the one who adds the most value to the site I think. I hope you don’t replace him with someone left of center who’s focus will be solely on playing gotcha with the right.

What other news sites, stations, papers do you visit regularly?

Drudge, Fox, ijreview, briebart [sic], occasionally the UT, a couple others I gravitate toward on occasion then get bored with.

People who don’t really understand the internet or journalism often voice this stereotype of bloggers as people writing from their basement, in their pajamas. As much as that’s a ridiculous notion, I think journalists often fall into the same trap when it comes to frequent commenters who we don’t know personally — we assume they have nothing better to do. Are there any details you can share that can shake us of that notion: Where you live, other hobbies, your career, etc.?

If I had something better to do, why would I be posting on VOSD instead? Honestly I am not too terribly concerned with your notions of me or dissuading you of your preconceptions. But if you want to know a little about me for your own curiosity I’ll play along. I live on a boat with my wife and dog, I like working on stuff, especially if I can use my hands and brain together, I work in telecom as an engineer for my day job. In my younger days I used to do martial arts, ride motorbikes, play D&D, shoot guns, drink. I have had jobs that included extensive travel, including international, but now I work in an office where the view doesn’t change, take care of my aged dog, keep my house in order and don’t have time for much else. I’m not a terribly private person, but I likewise don’t see the need to explain or reveal myself in detail beyond that, and I am hardly a mystery. You can always friend me on facebook (not that I am that active there), or not if you don’t want me to comment my tea party right wing take on whatever you post there.

Are you a member of Voice of San Diego? Why/why not?

I am not a supporter/member.

The first reason is that I don’t give out money lightly or often. Aside from my NRA membership I give to pet charities and anti-whaling anti-dolphin-killing organizations and that’s about it.

I also consider VOSD left of center overall, not a truly neutral news source, and many of my posts are censored, often for no reason I can see, often it’s the posts I put the most time into, other times it’s certain subject matter (like mentioning prior to the election that Filner took money from the MEK, listed as a terrorist organization, for a trip to Paris. That was censored any time I tried to bring it up even though it is newsworthy fact).

There also seems to be a double standard. Bob Stein is free to insult me for instance, his latest post certainly does and other posts have as well, some even by name (although he doesn’t use my name this time).

The second reason is I am pretty certain eventually Bob Stein and a few others will get their way and I will be banned from making comments, as there is little doubt in my mind that if public union employees could vote me off the site they would, and the argument that my opinion is hurting membership is a powerful incentive, true or not.

♦♦♦

To his credit, Jones doesn’t hide behind the cloak of anonymity the internet can easily provide — he answered every question.

I often tell reporters to take face-to-face meetings with sources when they can, because it’s harder for people to refuse to speak with you for stories when they’ve shaken your hand and made small talk about their kid’s school recital.

That same idea came back to haunt me a bit here — it’s a little easier to forget that someone has consistently dismissed you as undeserving of your job because you have a strong feminist viewpoint when you’re swapping emails about cute dogs.

On the site, though, Jones is almost uniformly rude. I certainly sympathize with the people who feel he’s personally insulted them — as you can see, I’ve landed on that list more than once.

But he is engaged with the news and has a pretty solid grasp of the facts on various issues (as for how he chooses to wield them, I’ll let you be the judge). We do cut about one out of every 20 of Jones’ posts, when we feel they’ve crossed a line or include an inflammatory insult. For the most part, though, he has been careful to play by the rules.

Ultimately, Jones is relatively harmless compared to some hall-of-fame internet trolls like this guy, or this one.

Then again, being not-the-biggest-asshole-on-the-internet isn’t a very high bar to clear.

Journalism is a pretty volatile business. Stories fall through. News breaks unexpectedly. And yet, Jones is always there, like clockwork, with an irritating response. In a chaotic work world, I guess that’s weirdly comforting.

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    Written by Sara Libby

    Sara Libby is VOSD’s managing editor. She oversees VOSD’s newsroom and its content. You can reach her at sara.libby@voiceofsandiego.org or 619.325.0526.

    145 comments
    Michael Russell
    Michael Russell

    If you're going to be a Professional Journalist, Sara Libby, you're going to need a thicker hide and less empathy with your opponent. I seem to have roughly the same life experience as "Jim Jones" (is that a real name or a pseudonym after the cult leader who mass murdered 800 people?), yet we are political opposites. I'm left of center, and see VoSD as just good journalism, catching the powerful business scams, but the UT is clearly a local conservative's wet dream.

    The real problem here is that in order to make a living, journalists can no longer be truly independent. Even KPBS which is funded by a broad spectrum of philanthropy, memberships, and government funding, can be bought (Irwin Jacobs) and used to become a speculative attack dog (against Bob Filner), but can't do the kind of hard nose journalism that VoSD does because it will alienate some of their funders.

    I like VoSD, and I too miss reporters like Emily Alpert, who are obviously ethical, well schooled, competent, thorough, and passionate about their beat. But, I don't see how any non-profit can support professional local journalism, the kind that newspapers used to have when they were the only common advertising available, so no business could afford to ignore them, and few could purchase enough ads to influence their editorial control.

    Journalism has become a labor of love, or more accurately a slave labor for those who are smart enough to know what's going on, yet value justice too much to let it go un-reported. Don't censor Jim Jones, he's an honest commenter, not a troll as you call him. And although I think the NRA has been infiltrated by right-wing-nuts and racists and turned into an unethical lobbying force corrupting our democracy, I still believe in the 2nd Amendment and it's ability to defend the 1st. Let's use that 1st Amendment, so we don't have to rely upon the 2nd.

    Michael Russell
    Michael Russell subscriber

    If you're going to be a Professional Journalist, Sara Libby, you're going to need a thicker hide and less empathy with your opponent. I seem to have roughly the same life experience as "Jim Jones" (is that a real name or a pseudonym after the cult leader who mass murdered 800 people?), yet we are political opposites. I'm left of center, and see VoSD as just good journalism, catching the powerful business scams, but the UT is clearly a local conservative's wet dream.

    The real problem here is that in order to make a living, journalists can no longer be truly independent. Even KPBS which is funded by a broad spectrum of philanthropy, memberships, and government funding, can be bought (Irwin Jacobs) and used to become a speculative attack dog (against Bob Filner), but can't do the kind of hard nose journalism that VoSD does because it will alienate some of their funders.

    I like VoSD, and I too miss reporters like Emily Alpert, who are obviously ethical, well schooled, competent, thorough, and passionate about their beat. But, I don't see how any non-profit can support professional local journalism, the kind that newspapers used to have when they were the only common advertising available, so no business could afford to ignore them, and few could purchase enough ads to influence their editorial control.

    Journalism has become a labor of love, or more accurately a slave labor for those who are smart enough to know what's going on, yet value justice too much to let it go un-reported. Don't censor Jim Jones, he's an honest commenter, not a troll as you call him. And although I think the NRA has been infiltrated by right-wing-nuts and racists and turned into an unethical lobbying force corrupting our democracy, I still believe in the 2nd Amendment and it's ability to defend the 1st. Let's use that 1st Amendment, so we don't have to rely upon the 2nd.

    Robert McLaughlin
    Robert McLaughlin

    The one guy who actually gives an F about this site/media stunt and VOSD wants to ban him? You should hold on to this guy for dear life. Just change the title of "comments" to "soapbox". that way everyone will want to get up on it. then start charging people to do so.

    Robert McLaughlin
    Robert McLaughlin

    Libby is a fool . she went after chris cantore off all people for being a chauvinist. In three years she will be shilling for Hillary in Point Loma. I'm revoking your PB privileges. VOSD is a media stunt!. how's that for trolling?

    Evan Schumacher
    Evan Schumacher

    In case anyone is interested, I'm making the Jim Jones filter publicly available. It's an extension for Google Chrome, so if you aren't using Chrome as your browser, give it a shot. It's the best browser out there. I'd also like to say thanks to Jim Jones for doing this article. It was cool to get to know him a bit. Maybe Hazel the dog and your dog have played with each other at Fiesta Island. I didn't create this because I disagree with you, I created it because I feel that you repeat the same argument over and over, and it's not bringing anything to the table. I can almost predict exactly what you're going to say. Most of the time it just makes me angry and distracts from the discussion.Hide Jim Jones - https://chrome.google.comHide Jim Jones comments on Voice of San Diego and replace them with a picture of Hazel the dog.

    Evan Schumacher
    Evan Schumacher subscribermember

    In case anyone is interested, I'm making the Jim Jones filter publicly available. It's an extension for Google Chrome, so if you aren't using Chrome as your browser, give it a shot. It's the best browser out there. I'd also like to say thanks to Jim Jones for doing this article. It was cool to get to know him a bit. Maybe Hazel the dog and your dog have played with each other at Fiesta Island. I didn't create this because I disagree with you, I created it because I feel that you repeat the same argument over and over, and it's not bringing anything to the table. I can almost predict exactly what you're going to say. Most of the time it just makes me angry and distracts from the discussion.Hide Jim Jones - https://chrome.google.comHide Jim Jones comments on Voice of San Diego and replace them with a picture of Hazel the dog.

    Matt Finish
    Matt Finish

    I enjoy, and usually agree with, Jim's commentary. He is most certainly not a troll. He provides balance to a left leaning, but not far left, organization. Good article. And like you mentioned, he is harmless compared to the actual trolls discussed in the articles linked.

    Matt Finish
    Matt Finish subscriber

    I enjoy, and usually agree with, Jim's commentary. He is most certainly not a troll. He provides balance to a left leaning, but not far left, organization. Good article. And like you mentioned, he is harmless compared to the actual trolls discussed in the articles linked.

    mgland
    mgland

    Very interesting exchange here Sara. Your bias as a feminist, your youth and your liberal tilt are obvious. If I were to guess I'd say you were not raised with any brothers. If I were to post commenting on a story about one of the female posters on these boards comparing them to a dog as Dale Peterson has, or calling them a troll as Olin Hyde(and others) have, would you have printed the comment? The more liberal posters on this board would be up in arms if someone referred to them in this fashion. Seems to be ok if its directed at a conservative. Just saying.

    Mark Giffin
    Mark Giffin subscribermember

    Very interesting exchange here Sara. Your bias as a feminist, your youth and your liberal tilt are obvious. If I were to guess I'd say you were not raised with any brothers. If I were to post commenting on a story about one of the female posters on these boards comparing them to a dog as Dale Peterson has, or calling them a troll as Olin Hyde(and others) have, would you have printed the comment? The more liberal posters on this board would be up in arms if someone referred to them in this fashion. Seems to be ok if its directed at a conservative. Just saying.

    Jamie Edmonds
    Jamie Edmonds

    I've often heard that "the truth has a liberal bias". ;-)

    Jamie Edmonds
    Jamie Edmonds subscriber

    I've often heard that "the truth has a liberal bias". ;-)

    Olin Hyde
    Olin Hyde

    My reaction to Sara's article about Jim Jones was to immediately donate more money to VOSD. Jim is nothing more than a troll. It is admirable that VOSD allocated journalistic resources to research someone who is little more than a "barking dog." Although Jim is well informed on many issues, he is so ideologically biased that he fails to grasp the importance of donating more than words to solve a problem. Then again, Jim might be like one of the many engineers I've known who are mesmerized by their own thoughts while pecking commands into a computer. Yes, you can change the computer with commands but to change the world you often need to do more than spew words.

    Olin Hyde
    Olin Hyde subscribermember

    My reaction to Sara's article about Jim Jones was to immediately donate more money to VOSD. Jim is nothing more than a troll. It is admirable that VOSD allocated journalistic resources to research someone who is little more than a "barking dog." Although Jim is well informed on many issues, he is so ideologically biased that he fails to grasp the importance of donating more than words to solve a problem. Then again, Jim might be like one of the many engineers I've known who are mesmerized by their own thoughts while pecking commands into a computer. Yes, you can change the computer with commands but to change the world you often need to do more than spew words.

    Bob Stein
    Bob Stein

    Thank you for this piece Sarah. First, I’d like to clarify one point. I have never asked that Jim Jones be banned from posting on VoSD. I think anyone should be allowed to post, though as I have written, I am not convinced VoSD is a public space and therefore subject to commonly held beliefs guaranteeing freedom of speech. Newspapers and talk radio stations routinely limit or refuse commentary from everyday readers and listeners. I believe VoSD is well within its rights to do so too. However, I did communicate with Scott (and Andy) about Jim Jones. The three of us had a casual relationship based, at least for me, on my long time professional experience in the media and marketing industries. In that context, I pointed out that VoSD needed to determine whether having a poster on their site like Jim Jones was enhancing the value of their brand, and its relationship with readers and donors, and whether the reader comment section was working in a way that met the expectations they had for their brand. In the framework of those conversations, Scott was always quite clear about his unwillingness to ban Jim Jones. In fact, Scott was very convincing in his desire to do everything he could to expand the ability of San Diegans to engage with the site. Second, unlike Jim Jones, I do have better things to do than post on VoSD. And since Jim is “not too terribly concerned with [what people think of him] or dissuading [us of our] preconceptions,” I’m going to take the advice I've offered other posters and in this case not respond to his accusations concerning my apparent power over VoSD. As I have written before, since Jim is an ideologue and ideologues are adherents to belief systems which they refuse to accept can be proven wrong, it is fruitless to engage with him. Lastly, based on what I read reported here, can you hook me up with Evan Schumacher? I would like to get one of his “No Jones” filters installed on my computer.

    Arizona Bread
    Arizona Bread subscriber

    Thank you for this piece Sarah. First, I’d like to clarify one point. I have never asked that Jim Jones be banned from posting on VoSD. I think anyone should be allowed to post, though as I have written, I am not convinced VoSD is a public space and therefore subject to commonly held beliefs guaranteeing freedom of speech. Newspapers and talk radio stations routinely limit or refuse commentary from everyday readers and listeners. I believe VoSD is well within its rights to do so too. However, I did communicate with Scott (and Andy) about Jim Jones. The three of us had a casual relationship based, at least for me, on my long time professional experience in the media and marketing industries. In that context, I pointed out that VoSD needed to determine whether having a poster on their site like Jim Jones was enhancing the value of their brand, and its relationship with readers and donors, and whether the reader comment section was working in a way that met the expectations they had for their brand. In the framework of those conversations, Scott was always quite clear about his unwillingness to ban Jim Jones. In fact, Scott was very convincing in his desire to do everything he could to expand the ability of San Diegans to engage with the site. Second, unlike Jim Jones, I do have better things to do than post on VoSD. And since Jim is “not too terribly concerned with [what people think of him] or dissuading [us of our] preconceptions,” I’m going to take the advice I've offered other posters and in this case not respond to his accusations concerning my apparent power over VoSD. As I have written before, since Jim is an ideologue and ideologues are adherents to belief systems which they refuse to accept can be proven wrong, it is fruitless to engage with him. Lastly, based on what I read reported here, can you hook me up with Evan Schumacher? I would like to get one of his “No Jones” filters installed on my computer.

    Omar Passons
    Omar Passons

    The idea that Voice is either a left news outlet or a shill for the establishment ignores the data on the subject. Questioning a 40-yr old height limit and the propriety of affordable housing costs are hardly left leaning. And I doubt very much if anyone interviewed by Liam or Will have felt like the establishment was receiving preferential treatment. And if you read either Kelly's narrative on homeless or Andy's on land use the balance is evident.

    Omar Passons
    Omar Passons subscribermember

    The idea that Voice is either a left news outlet or a shill for the establishment ignores the data on the subject. Questioning a 40-yr old height limit and the propriety of affordable housing costs are hardly left leaning. And I doubt very much if anyone interviewed by Liam or Will have felt like the establishment was receiving preferential treatment. And if you read either Kelly's narrative on homeless or Andy's on land use the balance is evident.

    Fred Williams
    Fred Williams

    To add another point (comments are quite limited in size now I see), I think Jim is absolutely on the spot when he criticizes the laziness and lack of depth of reporting in San Diego. Unfortunately, too often San Diego journalists are so thin-skinned that they respond viscously to any who dare criticize their lofty work. The best reporters don't stick around long, finding greener pastures. The dross seem to linger forever, kow-towing to the well-connected.

    Fred Williams
    Fred Williams subscriber

    To add another point (comments are quite limited in size now I see), I think Jim is absolutely on the spot when he criticizes the laziness and lack of depth of reporting in San Diego. Unfortunately, too often San Diego journalists are so thin-skinned that they respond viscously to any who dare criticize their lofty work. The best reporters don't stick around long, finding greener pastures. The dross seem to linger forever, kow-towing to the well-connected.

    Fred Williams
    Fred Williams

    I find this article creepy. Jim was kind enough to go along, but will anyone else will do so having seen this? Instead of addressing Jim's issues, and even when he rudely disagrees with me he's always got some line of reasoning and evidence to back up his views, the author is smugly looking down her nose at him for having dared to disagree and criticize her. I would take issue with Jim's characterization of VOSD. I don't think it's left leaning so much as subservient to the establishment.

    Fred Williams
    Fred Williams subscriber

    I find this article creepy. Jim was kind enough to go along, but will anyone else will do so having seen this? Instead of addressing Jim's issues, and even when he rudely disagrees with me he's always got some line of reasoning and evidence to back up his views, the author is smugly looking down her nose at him for having dared to disagree and criticize her. I would take issue with Jim's characterization of VOSD. I don't think it's left leaning so much as subservient to the establishment.

    John Ross
    John Ross

    I find that Jim's postings make VOSD somewhat less pleasant. It's not so much that I disagree with him on almost everything, but the underlying meanness to his message, the predictable, instant response to every topic, is boring. Still, there are many kinds of people and personalities in life and I don't expect VOSD to be an echo chamber for my views or to meet concepts of civilty. If I could configure my account so that I didn't see his postings, I would.

    Mark Giffin
    Mark Giffin

    Just for the record/ I'm not a nutcase.
    In reality the things the NRA opposes we have in Calif already.
    Someone wanted to post a map of where the gun owners lived.
    Benefits me. I think they should go for for it.
    VOSD is having a crisis of voice growth. I'm confident they will figure it out

    Mark Giffin
    Mark Giffin subscribermember

    Just for the record/ I'm not a nutcase.
    In reality the things the NRA opposes we have in Calif already.
    Someone wanted to post a map of where the gun owners lived.
    Benefits me. I think they should go for for it.
    VOSD is having a crisis of voice growth. I'm confident they will figure it out

    Jim Jones
    Jim Jones

    Why did riff raff and magenta suddenly spring into my mind when I read that?

    Sara Libby
    Sara Libby

    For what it's worth, my brother and I are very close.

    Stuart Morse
    Stuart Morse

    Mgland, are you suggesting that posters such JimJones not be held accountable by the public? That seems completely counter-intuitive to the "conservative" position you claim to espouse. Perhaps you have forgotten some of the comments made by JimJones...or perhaps you agree with them: 1) Teachers have given up on students "decades" ago 2) Teachers are greedy and get paid lavishly 3) Sending your child to a school south of I8 is "child abuse" 4) Public and Private schools operate by the same rules 5) Public schools play no role / should play no role in socialization These are just a few of the completely absurd, out of touch comments made by JimJones. The article and the comments that follow are merely a reflection of public opinion. Maybe it is time to consider a more contemporary approach to understanding how society functions? p.s. "troll" is an internet specific term that very accurately describes JimJones. Perhaps you should become more informed about modern vocabulary before criticizing it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

    Jim Jones
    Jim Jones subscriber

    Why did riff raff and magenta suddenly spring into my mind when I read that?

    Stuart Morse
    Stuart Morse subscriber

    Mgland, are you suggesting that posters such JimJones not be held accountable by the public? That seems completely counter-intuitive to the "conservative" position you claim to espouse. Perhaps you have forgotten some of the comments made by JimJones...or perhaps you agree with them: 1) Teachers have given up on students "decades" ago 2) Teachers are greedy and get paid lavishly 3) Sending your child to a school south of I8 is "child abuse" 4) Public and Private schools operate by the same rules 5) Public schools play no role / should play no role in socialization These are just a few of the completely absurd, out of touch comments made by JimJones. The article and the comments that follow are merely a reflection of public opinion. Maybe it is time to consider a more contemporary approach to understanding how society functions? p.s. "troll" is an internet specific term that very accurately describes JimJones. Perhaps you should become more informed about modern vocabulary before criticizing it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

    Jim Jones
    Jim Jones

    Sydney, most who consider me a "barking dog" won't change their minds, because it is in their financial best interest to keep schools marginal and expensive, or to feed from the homeless trough, or any of a dozen more bloated, wasteful or abusive ways people who lobby for bigger government abuse the taxpayer. My ideology is hardly untested or unpopular, it's the ideology that built what the progressive ideology of today wants to tear down. Independence. Freedom. Self reliance. My ideology has a difficult time when the ideology of the self serving bureaucracy joins with the generational dependance of the EBT crowd, but that hardly means that there are not a lot of people who believe as I do. Just look how widely union retirement reform passed by. VOSD isn't going to change anything, donations or not, because the staff of VOSD is overwhelmingly left leaning, as are most in the journalist field. They are happy with their leash.

    Jim Jones
    Jim Jones

    Olin, are you really calling me a mesmerized barking dog? How very trollish of you. As an engineer I deal with effort and results, I don't know what sort of donations you are referring to that would lead to change? I would assume that you are referencing donating to VOSD, but I see little evidence that VOSD's account balance will change our city. In fact the more successful they are financially, the less likely they are to push the envelope. Can you amplify on your claim?

    Matt Finish
    Matt Finish

    Your assessment of engineers is off. I find them (myself being one) to have the exact opposite view of the world you suggest. That humans cannot be dictated by formula, and therefore, social programs don't work.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott

    You had me at "more money" but, dang, them's some well-written thoughts. Nice to see you here, Olin.

    Jim Jones
    Jim Jones subscriber

    Sydney, most who consider me a "barking dog" won't change their minds, because it is in their financial best interest to keep schools marginal and expensive, or to feed from the homeless trough, or any of a dozen more bloated, wasteful or abusive ways people who lobby for bigger government abuse the taxpayer. My ideology is hardly untested or unpopular, it's the ideology that built what the progressive ideology of today wants to tear down. Independence. Freedom. Self reliance. My ideology has a difficult time when the ideology of the self serving bureaucracy joins with the generational dependance of the EBT crowd, but that hardly means that there are not a lot of people who believe as I do. Just look how widely union retirement reform passed by. VOSD isn't going to change anything, donations or not, because the staff of VOSD is overwhelmingly left leaning, as are most in the journalist field. They are happy with their leash.

    Jim Jones
    Jim Jones subscriber

    Olin, are you really calling me a mesmerized barking dog? How very trollish of you. As an engineer I deal with effort and results, I don't know what sort of donations you are referring to that would lead to change? I would assume that you are referencing donating to VOSD, but I see little evidence that VOSD's account balance will change our city. In fact the more successful they are financially, the less likely they are to push the envelope. Can you amplify on your claim?

    Matt Finish
    Matt Finish subscriber

    Your assessment of engineers is off. I find them (myself being one) to have the exact opposite view of the world you suggest. That humans cannot be dictated by formula, and therefore, social programs don't work.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott contributormember

    You had me at "more money" but, dang, them's some well-written thoughts. Nice to see you here, Olin.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott

    Text limit has been increased to 2500 characters.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Curabitur lacinia mi odio. Cras congue viverra elit in dictum. Nunc ut orci nunc. Suspendisse vel orci vitae felis scelerisque dignissim. Ut ut erat sed ligula sagittis malesuada et in purus. Curabitur euismod mattis velit, et euismod purus aliquet sed. Vestibulum non eleifend sem. Ut adipiscing dictum dolor at pharetra. Integer suscipit erat et massa vulputate ullamcorper. Sed lacinia gravida faucibus. Curabitur mattis metus pellentesque mi dapibus sodales vel in turpis. Suspendisse turpis augue, interdum non facilisis at, ultrices et sem. Maecenas sed nibh sem. Donec quis ante eget nibh lobortis interdum. Pellentesque mauris arcu, mattis faucibus tristique quis, consequat id magna. Fusce quis mauris dolor. Nunc mi lacus, lacinia quis vehicula sed, pharetra id leo. Phasellus nibh nisi, aliquam nec euismod sit amet, pellentesque imperdiet tortor. Quisque justo turpis, hendrerit laoreet suscipit non, viverra a massa. Mauris quis sem turpis, at faucibus felis. Sed ut massa lacus, ut blandit orci. Nulla sed risus in mauris placerat accumsan. Fusce eu sapien eget ante bibendum consectetur. Cras et consectetur quam. Etiam ultrices erat in purus mollis aliquam. Pellentesque magna velit, semper vel bibendum sit amet, volutpat ac urna. Integer ultrices turpis in libero adipiscing et aliquet elit porttitor. Etiam ut sem at ligula sollicitudin vestibulum. Nulla consectetur felis non purus molestie vulputate. Donec quis lectus ac sapien rutrum sodales. Nullam sit amet nulla lectus. Donec ipsum enim, consequat sed rhoncus ut, euismod a sapien. Sed quis nibh urna. Nulla pretium, urna non consequat feugiat, erat diam dignissim erat, quis ullamcorper enim arcu at arcu. Sed laoreet tortor et ipsum blandit faucibus. Donec dignissim vestibulum eleifend. Mauris nulla diam, sodales sed facilisis in, feugiat et dui. Maecenas egestas pulvinar dui a facilisis. Fusce non nisl sit amet risus cursus malesuada. Etiam tempus venenatis dui, non vehicula nulla vulputate sed. Maecenas vitae enim quis lorem malesuada cursus ac laoreet tortor. Etiam dapibus varius cursus. Donec turpis metus, dapibus a pretium a, ultrices et nulla. Nunc id ante nulla. Morbi quis diam nibh. Nullam in mauris vel diam imperdiet rutrum eu nec lorem. Curabitur eget auctor lacus. Aenean ultricies semper turpis, in facilisis augue facilisis ut. Nullam auctor iaculis convallis. Ut tincidunt varius rutrum. Ut tempor erat vitae neque tincidunt eu pellentesque lectus ultrices. In id lorem id nunc semper tristique et non elit. Sed dui nunc, fermentum at consectetur sed, dignissim vitae purus. Mauris interdum adipiscing vehicula. Duis sollicitudin rhoncus urna in scelerisque. Integer venenatis, ipsum sed lacinia ullamcorper, dui ipsum interdum lacus, eget pellentesque tellus nunc non justo. Sed interdum sapien dignissim dui eleifend iaculis. Praesent laoreet blandit turpis.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott

    Working on the comments size limitation. It's 500 characters right now, but it will be more soon. Keep the faith.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott contributormember

    Text limit has been increased to 2500 characters.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott contributormember

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Curabitur lacinia mi odio. Cras congue viverra elit in dictum. Nunc ut orci nunc. Suspendisse vel orci vitae felis scelerisque dignissim. Ut ut erat sed ligula sagittis malesuada et in purus. Curabitur euismod mattis velit, et euismod purus aliquet sed. Vestibulum non eleifend sem. Ut adipiscing dictum dolor at pharetra. Integer suscipit erat et massa vulputate ullamcorper. Sed lacinia gravida faucibus. Curabitur mattis metus pellentesque mi dapibus sodales vel in turpis. Suspendisse turpis augue, interdum non facilisis at, ultrices et sem. Maecenas sed nibh sem. Donec quis ante eget nibh lobortis interdum. Pellentesque mauris arcu, mattis faucibus tristique quis, consequat id magna. Fusce quis mauris dolor. Nunc mi lacus, lacinia quis vehicula sed, pharetra id leo. Phasellus nibh nisi, aliquam nec euismod sit amet, pellentesque imperdiet tortor. Quisque justo turpis, hendrerit laoreet suscipit non, viverra a massa. Mauris quis sem turpis, at faucibus felis. Sed ut massa lacus, ut blandit orci. Nulla sed risus in mauris placerat accumsan. Fusce eu sapien eget ante bibendum consectetur. Cras et consectetur quam. Etiam ultrices erat in purus mollis aliquam. Pellentesque magna velit, semper vel bibendum sit amet, volutpat ac urna. Integer ultrices turpis in libero adipiscing et aliquet elit porttitor. Etiam ut sem at ligula sollicitudin vestibulum. Nulla consectetur felis non purus molestie vulputate. Donec quis lectus ac sapien rutrum sodales. Nullam sit amet nulla lectus. Donec ipsum enim, consequat sed rhoncus ut, euismod a sapien. Sed quis nibh urna. Nulla pretium, urna non consequat feugiat, erat diam dignissim erat, quis ullamcorper enim arcu at arcu. Sed laoreet tortor et ipsum blandit faucibus. Donec dignissim vestibulum eleifend. Mauris nulla diam, sodales sed facilisis in, feugiat et dui. Maecenas egestas pulvinar dui a facilisis. Fusce non nisl sit amet risus cursus malesuada. Etiam tempus venenatis dui, non vehicula nulla vulputate sed. Maecenas vitae enim quis lorem malesuada cursus ac laoreet tortor. Etiam dapibus varius cursus. Donec turpis metus, dapibus a pretium a, ultrices et nulla. Nunc id ante nulla. Morbi quis diam nibh. Nullam in mauris vel diam imperdiet rutrum eu nec lorem. Curabitur eget auctor lacus. Aenean ultricies semper turpis, in facilisis augue facilisis ut. Nullam auctor iaculis convallis. Ut tincidunt varius rutrum. Ut tempor erat vitae neque tincidunt eu pellentesque lectus ultrices. In id lorem id nunc semper tristique et non elit. Sed dui nunc, fermentum at consectetur sed, dignissim vitae purus. Mauris interdum adipiscing vehicula. Duis sollicitudin rhoncus urna in scelerisque. Integer venenatis, ipsum sed lacinia ullamcorper, dui ipsum interdum lacus, eget pellentesque tellus nunc non justo. Sed interdum sapien dignissim dui eleifend iaculis. Praesent laoreet blandit turpis.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott contributormember

    Working on the comments size limitation. It's 500 characters right now, but it will be more soon. Keep the faith.

    Chris Brewster
    Chris Brewster

    I am often frustrated by the opinions of those with whom I disagree, but if I listened only to those with whom I agree, I would be living in a very sanitized world, and my own opinions would be untested. I am not desirous of an intellectual life in an echo chamber.

    Kelly Abbott
    Kelly Abbott

    I thought this feature might be requested. :-)

    Sydney Allen
    Sydney Allen

    Well Jim, if you're not here in attempt to "change" minds/opinions, then what's with the constant posts? That questioned unanswered, can you not see why most here would consider you a "barking dog"? Just because you're gifted in the argument department, doesn't change the fact that many here see you as a tireless mouthpiece for an untested and unpopular ideology. And, if it's unlikely that VOSD is able to enact change with or without monetary donations, then in my opinion you're nothing but cranky barker, an eloquent one at that.

    Sydney Allen
    Sydney Allen subscriber

    Well Jim, if you're not here in attempt to "change" minds/opinions, then what's with the constant posts? That questioned unanswered, can you not see why most here would consider you a "barking dog"? Just because you're gifted in the argument department, doesn't change the fact that many here see you as a tireless mouthpiece for an untested and unpopular ideology. And, if it's unlikely that VOSD is able to enact change with or without monetary donations, then in my opinion you're nothing but cranky barker, an eloquent one at that.

    mlaiuppa
    mlaiuppa

    There's healthy debate and then there's predictable negativity. One is educational, the other just boring.

    mlaiuppa
    mlaiuppa

    Is that a feature we might get? Fabulous!


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