Comments so far on this story:

1. BertG wrote on May 6, 2008 2:51 PM:
"The McDonnel Douglas aircraft plant (now Boeing), where they manufactured F-4 and and now F-15 fighter aircraft, is co-located on Lambert Field in St. Louis, MO. Lambert is the airport you fly into on a civilian airliner. Granted the planes manufactured and flown out of Lambert have not yet been delivered to the USAF, but still, it is a joint operation of military and civilian aircraft. Remember, these flights are the first flights EVER for the military planes. Still pretty safe there."

2. Billy Bob Henry wrote on May 6, 2008 3:17 PM:
"Miramar is NOT going to be open for non military use until after the military leaves-and that is not going to happen. People have to deal with that."

3. Robbie wrote on May 6, 2008 9:32 PM:
"In Hawaii, Hickam AFB and Honolulu Int'l Airport share a runway, the long "reef" runway. Often you see a mix of military and civilian aircraft lined up on the taxiway leading out to the shared runway."

4. TheGunny wrote on May 6, 2008 10:04 PM:
"Bert- The Like you said it's a production field of departure. The fighters are not completing flight quals, or carrier quals. Robbie, Hickam AFB is a major airlift command hub for the Pacific, which equates to large frame aircraft like the 747's you see lined up. They cannot execute their touch and goes like you see here at Miramar, they transition to MCAS Kaneohe on the windward side of the island. Mr Knox you need to understand just what BBH has stated in the clear. The Marines and Navy are not going to be departing the greater San Diego region for some time. Leave the flight operations to those who know better. The noise of freedom should not be such a burden on you."

5. Day wrote on May 6, 2008 11:54 PM:
"I think there are probably plenty of examples where military/civilian traffic operate safely in the same airspace. It sounds like your main concern is fixed wing vs. helos. As long as ATC is on top of things, it shouldn't matter. At many military installations, the Safety office will publish a Mid Air Collision Avoidance handbook, which should be posted to a public website. If you fly in the vicinity of a military flying base, it's definitely a good idea to contact the Safety office to find out how to access their MACA handbook. This handbook can tell you what military aircraft operate in the area, where exactly they operate, and what you can expect to see them doing. It's especially helpful if you fly near low level routes (Military Training Routes--MTRs), which are depicted on sectionals. Also, check out this website: SeeAndAvoid.org."

6. Howiek wrote on May 7, 2008 2:44 AM:
"Well BBH, I agree that there will never be any joint use of Miramar, but at the same time I cannot support the airport authority spending what will eventually be over a billion dollars (cost of construction materials, cost overruns, etc.) on Lindbergh Field, just a waste of money on that totally outdated and quite dangerous airport. And the Marine’s may leave sooner than you think."

7. Jack Griffiths wrote on May 7, 2008 5:41 AM:
"MrKnox,all due respect,Sir,but its very unlikely that the voters will over turn an over-whelming ballot initiative victory in support of MCAS Miramar for the sake of developers.Recent protest demonstrations led by Kevin Faulconer demonstrate that the community is still very concerned that the $1 billion in expansion plans for the airport be done with an effective design for permanence. I appreciate your concern for safety but wonder upon what basis of evidence or incident you base your concern.Currently MCAS Miramar is a jewel in the crown of the military's defensive policies for the Southwest and it recently was voted the"The Best Military Air Show in the World" by the Int'l Assoc of Air Shows.MCAS Miramar enjoys a popularity within its surrounding communities that's the envy of military facilities around the World.Miramar pumps almost a billion into the regional economy and their safety record is the highest.They're keepers,imho."

8. Jack Griffiths wrote on May 7, 2008 7:32 AM:
"Noise of freedom, well said. When the Navy ran Miramar the noise complaints each month were recorded and reported in very high and totally unacceptable numbers BUT since the transition to the Marines they've fallen off to a mere dozen+ each month and many of those frequently reported by the same individuals each month. Those calls are responded to with courtesy and concern by Flight staff each time. In customer service criteria it doesn't get much better than that by any standard. The noise of FREEDOM, indeed."

9. Howiek wrote on May 7, 2008 8:25 AM:
"Well TheGunny, I find you choice of words rather interesting. You say that the Marines and the Navy won�t be leaving leaving anytime soon, that leaves the door open to saying that yes in the future they will leave, kinda like Duh! MCAS Miramar is about to add some aircraft that don�t go well with sleeping�don�t hand me that crap about the sound of freedom, I spent two years in Vietnam buddy! I do like to sleep at night! Within the past few days military aircraft flew over the house and woke everyone up at midnight�this is not acceptable. Period! And from the data I have looked at the MV-22 and the F-18 replacement, the F-35 are considerably louder than what they will replace, ergo they will not be coming here. Jack Griffiths! Are you saying that when the Marines leave Miramar you are more than happy with the fact that"

10. Mark Schaeffer wrote on May 7, 2008 8:32 AM:
"I have heard it said that, in the 1950s, San Diego wanted to move commercial operations to Montgomery Field, and was cowed by threat of loss of Naval support of the local economy and claims of interference with then-NAS Miramar. Can anyone comment meaningfully on this?"

11. BertG wrote on May 7, 2008 10:06 AM:
"Gunny, point well taken about Lambert being a point of departure field. However, it was more than that for McDonnell when I toured the plant. There were F-101s and F-4s undergoing engine changeouts, and other maintenance. But, the production planes were flown by civilians. And there were no carrier quals, etc. as you said. Jack Griffiths, may I recommend the Aviation Nation airshow at Nellis AFB in November? It is easily as enjoyable as Miramar, and oh yes, there is that little place called Las Vegas nearby. Howiek, I agree that the F-35 will be louder than the F-18 it will eventually replace. Ah, the Sound of Freedom will be with us for a long while."

12. Jack Griffiths wrote on May 7, 2008 10:40 AM:
"Howiek,I'll wager you're not the only veteran on this thread and I congratulate and thank you for your service to our Republic. I image that if the technologies of aviation advance at the pace they are the USMC will need a smaller footprint for its aviation increment,eventually then a re-location to Pendleton might be appropriate but that's a Navy/DOD call,isn't it? I am sure the Nellis Show is first rate. This recognition for Miramar was awarded a few months ago by the Int'l Association at its annual meeting in Las Vegas.You'll excuse my understandable pride for our hometown guys and gals, Colonel Chris O'Connor and Major Jason Johnston amongst them. !Semper Fi!"

13. Howiek wrote on May 7, 2008 10:50 AM:
"Mark Schaeffer, as I remember the story, in 1953 the Navy offered Miramar to the city of San Diego for $1.00, but San Diego in its infinite stupidity said no! Kind of saying that is too far to travel! Go figure. But then again San Diego has a few problems over the years; the Yellow Cab scandal, C. Arnholt Smith, the demise of the aircraft industry, the sports issues, a continuing problem, a crook posing as a congressman, a mayor who resigned, convicted felons on the City Council, the pension crisis, the continuing loss of police and fire personnel due to low pay, the deteriorating infrastructure, pegged at 4 to 6 billion, I don’t recall all the mistakes this city has made, there many more. Maybe you would want to build on unstable hillsides in La Jolla? That’s what happens when you have a small town, military retirement, red neck community!"

14. Howiek wrote on May 7, 2008 10:51 AM:
"BertG! The F-35's will not be stationed here for the same reason the AV-8s are not stationed here--noise!"

15. JR wrote on May 7, 2008 10:59 AM:
"The reason why Lindbergh isn't moving to Miramar is because the voters rejected it...again. As for joint ops, the fewer planes using the same field, the safer those planes will be from collision and just plain bad luck. As for Lindbergh, it should be upgraded---and a second runway added over the SD River Channel and connected by a trolley along Harbor Drive and Nimitz. Check your maps, boys and girls; that idea isn't as farfetched as you may think---even the dunces in SD government may eventually agree on that one---and their owners, too."

16. TheGunny wrote on May 7, 2008 12:13 PM:
"Sir your bitterness is only surpassed by you obtrusiveness. If you don't like the planes, then move. No one is keeping you there. Have you filed a noise complaint with the airbase?"

17. Howiek wrote on May 7, 2008 12:33 PM:
"Move? Why should I? The Marines can move their takeoff and landing patterns just as well. Yes, TheGunny, many noise complaints to no avail. But flying over populated areas at midnight is a bit much--all three of the aircraft. Bitter? I'm not bitter at all, just astonished at why some people are so enamored with a military base in the middle of the eighth largest city in the U.S. taking off and landing with live ordnance onboard. It will only take one 500 pounder to ruin your day."

18. Fidens Mortis wrote on May 7, 2008 1:09 PM:
"I guess you can say the MCAS is going to be a victim of urban sprawl. The MCAS was established in 1917 when this area was nothing more than the backwoods. Since then this city has slowly built up to the base walls and now clamors for it's demise. For what? The real estate value and the buck that comes with destroying the last wildlife perserve in SDCo. Howiek, you should check on a story in Yuma from about 2-3 years back. A Harrier went down in the residential neigbhborhood just outside the flight pattern. The plane had the guns loaded with two 250's on the wing stations. Luckily enough the pilot put the plane in a pool."

19. Jack Griffiths wrote on May 7, 2008 1:52 PM:
"Did we forget to take our meds today? Flying over parts of the 2nd largest city in California on vectors designed with the least impact on those below is a world military standard second to none.A fly over at that hour is extra-ordinary but we are at war.Was it anything short of mission critical?I would find that hard to believe.I doubt either the Chinese or the North Koreans have as much concern for their communities.500 pounders could be a concern but that level of anxiety would have us walking everywhere because cars occassionaly crash. Enamored of our military?Guilty as charged.I've been to China and know of what I speak.They don't take noise complaints and would have something for you to be doing besides watching the sky:Making little rocks out of big rocks,in the hot sun,with rice + water only.Bitch on GI,the Corps,its noise and all,defends your rights. Thank Goodness!"

20. Billy Bob Henry wrote on May 7, 2008 2:08 PM:
"17. Howiek wrote on May 7, 2008 12:33 PM: "Move? Why should I? The Marines can move their takeoff and landing patterns just as well.......Thanks for that laugh HowieK-you're 100% right-you should not have to move, the marines should...lol!"

21. Jeff Knox wrote on May 7, 2008 2:44 PM:
"Gee, I guess people don't read too well! I did NOT file a noise complaint. Actually, I enjoyed watching the Red Bull pilots fly. It was the Navy who insisted that it be filed as a noise complaint. All I did was raise a safety issue!"

22. Fidens Mortis wrote on May 7, 2008 3:37 PM:
"So then Mr knox, what avaition background do you have that deems you so safety minded, or do you just want the planes somewhere else?"

23. Jack Griffiths wrote on May 7, 2008 4:59 PM:
"Mr Knox,if you're talking safety at North Island and trying to make a case for joint use at Miramar based on your observations of the Red Bull event I'm afraid you're in danger of a slight exaggeration. If, however, you wish to talk about an Edge 540,weighing half a ton flying at speeds approaching 250 with 60+ gallons of fuel and almost 8-9 g's at the turns within a few hundred yards of thousands of spectators you might have a case.But, given the popularity of this newest version of motocross,I doubt you'd get much attention.Seems the producers and the City have already inked a deal for the future. In any case I'd recommend you address the Public Relations Office at 32nd Naval with your thoughts and concerns.I'm certain you'll find them very courteous."

24. Airliner wrote on May 7, 2008 5:47 PM:
"JR..."again"? The county voted yes in the mid 1990's only to have it undermined by Duke Cuningham. So does that vote have more relevance than the last vote? If so, why? Because its more recent? Or is it because people don't see a problem until it directly affects them and their wallet? As for Miramar, when the F-18 is retired, so too is Miramars pilot training mission. It goes to Eglin. China a threat? Must be why we have all those bases in Oregon and why we are closing bases in Alaska."